1 00:00:04,390 --> 00:00:02,230 hey y'all ryan spreck here as you all 2 00:00:07,110 --> 00:00:04,400 know the summer on the skies podcast is 3 00:00:09,509 --> 00:00:07,120 always free to consume but it isn't free 4 00:00:11,910 --> 00:00:09,519 to create that's why i've started this 5 00:00:14,230 --> 00:00:11,920 somewhere in the sky's patreon campaign 6 00:00:15,910 --> 00:00:14,240 on a monthly basis you give what you 7 00:00:18,710 --> 00:00:15,920 think the show is worth you'll be 8 00:00:21,349 --> 00:00:18,720 helping the show continue grow and to be 9 00:00:23,429 --> 00:00:21,359 something truly communal and remember 10 00:00:25,670 --> 00:00:23,439 there are rewards for each level of 11 00:00:28,070 --> 00:00:25,680 contribution and the list is only 12 00:00:30,550 --> 00:00:28,080 growing so please help somewhere in the 13 00:00:32,790 --> 00:00:30,560 skies now by becoming a patron to 14 00:00:35,510 --> 00:00:32,800 contribute and to learn more visit 15 00:00:38,310 --> 00:00:35,520 www.patreon.com 16 00:00:45,070 --> 00:00:38,320 backslash somewhere skies thank you for 17 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:49,830 [Applause] 18 00:00:55,220 --> 00:00:52,709 this is somewhere in the skies with ryan 19 00:01:19,670 --> 00:00:55,230 spread 20 00:01:21,350 --> 00:01:19,680 [Music] 21 00:01:24,149 --> 00:01:21,360 welcome to somewhere in the skies i'm 22 00:01:26,950 --> 00:01:24,159 your host ryan sprague sometimes you 23 00:01:28,550 --> 00:01:26,960 just gotta unwind and treat yourself and 24 00:01:30,870 --> 00:01:28,560 that's no exception when it comes to the 25 00:01:33,510 --> 00:01:30,880 podcast i've been chatting back and 26 00:01:36,149 --> 00:01:33,520 forth with colleague mj banayas about uh 27 00:01:39,190 --> 00:01:36,159 you'll never guess ufos 28 00:01:42,230 --> 00:01:39,200 what and as we were talking we both 29 00:01:44,469 --> 00:01:42,240 realized we were huge whiskey fans and 30 00:01:46,469 --> 00:01:44,479 if we're gonna talk ufos and drink 31 00:01:49,830 --> 00:01:46,479 whiskey it seemed like the perfect 32 00:01:52,149 --> 00:01:49,840 combination for some good content so we 33 00:01:53,350 --> 00:01:52,159 decided to hit the old record button and 34 00:01:55,830 --> 00:01:53,360 let it fly 35 00:01:57,990 --> 00:01:55,840 this is a two-part series of somewhere 36 00:02:00,550 --> 00:01:58,000 in the skies and it's a little different 37 00:02:03,030 --> 00:02:00,560 than you're used to it's just mj and i 38 00:02:06,230 --> 00:02:03,040 bouncing thoughts theories and opinions 39 00:02:09,190 --> 00:02:06,240 off on one another it's conversation 40 00:02:10,550 --> 00:02:09,200 it's discourse and it's completely 41 00:02:12,949 --> 00:02:10,560 uncensored 42 00:02:15,030 --> 00:02:12,959 you've been warned and you've been 43 00:02:16,869 --> 00:02:15,040 invited to grab a seat with us borrow 44 00:02:20,150 --> 00:02:16,879 yourself a healthy dose of whiskey 45 00:02:22,869 --> 00:02:20,160 bourbon or water i'm not judging and 46 00:02:26,390 --> 00:02:22,879 join us in this free-for-all discussion 47 00:02:29,589 --> 00:02:26,400 on ufos and a human approach to an alien 48 00:02:32,550 --> 00:02:29,599 phenomenon here is part one and in the 49 00:02:35,750 --> 00:02:32,560 words of the american poet richard hovey 50 00:02:42,470 --> 00:02:35,760 may the beam of your glass never destroy 51 00:02:46,309 --> 00:02:44,150 mj how you doing tonight my man i'm 52 00:02:48,550 --> 00:02:46,319 doing great living the dream man living 53 00:02:50,790 --> 00:02:48,560 the dream living the dream as always now 54 00:02:52,470 --> 00:02:50,800 first of all this was your idea so i 55 00:02:55,270 --> 00:02:52,480 have to credit you with this we are 56 00:02:56,790 --> 00:02:55,280 sitting back we are having a whiskey and 57 00:02:58,869 --> 00:02:56,800 we're just gonna we're just gonna chat 58 00:03:00,550 --> 00:02:58,879 man whatever comes to mind there's 59 00:03:03,030 --> 00:03:00,560 nothing better than like a good glass of 60 00:03:04,309 --> 00:03:03,040 whisk in conversation yes exactly what 61 00:03:07,350 --> 00:03:04,319 are you drinking what do you got over 62 00:03:09,910 --> 00:03:07,360 there tonight uh i have a little little 63 00:03:12,309 --> 00:03:09,920 nip of uh it's called the ardmore it's a 64 00:03:14,869 --> 00:03:12,319 it's a scotch i think highland scotch 65 00:03:16,949 --> 00:03:14,879 nice little blend nothing too fancy but 66 00:03:20,149 --> 00:03:16,959 um you know it's got a bit of heat i'll 67 00:03:22,949 --> 00:03:20,159 say that it's it's it's about 44 so uh 68 00:03:25,589 --> 00:03:22,959 the the back end is a little burny so uh 69 00:03:28,229 --> 00:03:25,599 it's it's enjoyable mellow up front 70 00:03:30,550 --> 00:03:28,239 um nice and punchy in the back so if the 71 00:03:33,589 --> 00:03:30,560 ardmore scotch whiskey oh yummy i'm 72 00:03:36,789 --> 00:03:33,599 drinking a scotch as well i got a uh 73 00:03:37,750 --> 00:03:36,799 wolf burn so this is from northland i 74 00:03:40,070 --> 00:03:37,760 believe 75 00:03:42,229 --> 00:03:40,080 scotland so it's only a year old they 76 00:03:45,030 --> 00:03:42,239 the distillery opened about a year and a 77 00:03:48,470 --> 00:03:45,040 half ago the the original one burnt down 78 00:03:51,910 --> 00:03:48,480 as they do and uh yeah they just started 79 00:03:54,710 --> 00:03:51,920 up a new single malt and uh i'd have to 80 00:03:57,270 --> 00:03:54,720 compare it the same it's uh you know 81 00:03:58,789 --> 00:03:57,280 very very good finish 82 00:04:00,869 --> 00:03:58,799 sweeter than i thought it's got a lot of 83 00:04:03,429 --> 00:04:00,879 honey notes to it so it was a lot more 84 00:04:04,390 --> 00:04:03,439 of a dessert whiskey than i anticipated 85 00:04:07,110 --> 00:04:04,400 but uh 86 00:04:09,350 --> 00:04:07,120 ugh good nonetheless sounds terrific uh 87 00:04:11,350 --> 00:04:09,360 like i said a good whiskey and some ufos 88 00:04:13,110 --> 00:04:11,360 so man i mean we we're just gonna kind 89 00:04:14,869 --> 00:04:13,120 of go off the cuff here but there are a 90 00:04:17,749 --> 00:04:14,879 few things i wanted to bring up you 91 00:04:21,030 --> 00:04:17,759 being in canada this story's been making 92 00:04:24,870 --> 00:04:21,040 the rounds lately about a new canadian 93 00:04:26,629 --> 00:04:24,880 coin that features a ufo case what have 94 00:04:28,790 --> 00:04:26,639 you found out about this and have you 95 00:04:30,310 --> 00:04:28,800 gotten your hands on this yet okay yeah 96 00:04:33,110 --> 00:04:30,320 so i've read this in the newspaper and 97 00:04:35,670 --> 00:04:33,120 it was uh like because the mint in 98 00:04:37,670 --> 00:04:35,680 canada is is in my 99 00:04:40,710 --> 00:04:37,680 it's in like my my city so it's pretty 100 00:04:43,590 --> 00:04:40,720 local um and it's a it's a 20 silver 101 00:04:45,110 --> 00:04:43,600 coin and it's shaped sort of not it's 102 00:04:46,870 --> 00:04:45,120 not really circular it's sort of like a 103 00:04:48,950 --> 00:04:46,880 teardrop shaper and sort of an oval with 104 00:04:51,189 --> 00:04:48,960 a and it kind of rounds off to the 105 00:04:53,909 --> 00:04:51,199 bottom into like a teardrop and it and 106 00:04:56,710 --> 00:04:53,919 it's it's it's to commemorate the falcon 107 00:05:00,070 --> 00:04:56,720 lake uh ufo encounter which happened in 108 00:05:02,310 --> 00:05:00,080 falcon lake manitoba in 1967 and it's 109 00:05:04,870 --> 00:05:02,320 sort of one of the best known 110 00:05:08,550 --> 00:05:04,880 or best sort of investigated i suppose 111 00:05:11,430 --> 00:05:08,560 ufo encounters close encounters um in 112 00:05:13,270 --> 00:05:11,440 canadian history um so the coin i think 113 00:05:15,029 --> 00:05:13,280 is about 120 114 00:05:17,189 --> 00:05:15,039 canadian to buy 115 00:05:18,790 --> 00:05:17,199 so i i'm kind of viewing that as a 116 00:05:20,550 --> 00:05:18,800 slight rip-off i mean the silver is 117 00:05:23,270 --> 00:05:20,560 worth about 20 but it's gonna cost me 118 00:05:24,710 --> 00:05:23,280 120 to buy it um that being said when 119 00:05:26,230 --> 00:05:24,720 something like that comes out it's tough 120 00:05:28,469 --> 00:05:26,240 for me not to get the credit card out 121 00:05:30,310 --> 00:05:28,479 and just start throwing money at me 122 00:05:32,469 --> 00:05:30,320 so yeah the the back of the coin 123 00:05:33,990 --> 00:05:32,479 features the typical canadian sort of 124 00:05:35,830 --> 00:05:34,000 the canadian you know 125 00:05:39,430 --> 00:05:35,840 head which is the queen and then on the 126 00:05:41,670 --> 00:05:39,440 front end is um a sort of a picture of a 127 00:05:42,710 --> 00:05:41,680 man who is supposed to be stephen 128 00:05:44,710 --> 00:05:42,720 uh 129 00:05:47,590 --> 00:05:44,720 stephen 130 00:05:49,749 --> 00:05:47,600 there we go we got it sorry and uh he 131 00:05:52,070 --> 00:05:49,759 sort of crouched down his he's sort of 132 00:05:54,150 --> 00:05:52,080 looking up into the sky as this sort of 133 00:05:56,150 --> 00:05:54,160 disc like object is sort of descending 134 00:05:57,670 --> 00:05:56,160 over him in the lake um in the 135 00:05:59,909 --> 00:05:57,680 background so it's a it's and it's 136 00:06:01,830 --> 00:05:59,919 colored and it's it's quite sort of i 137 00:06:04,550 --> 00:06:01,840 mean it's kind of silly looking but like 138 00:06:06,469 --> 00:06:04,560 i said it's a ufo coin and i have to be 139 00:06:08,790 --> 00:06:06,479 i have to say as a canadian i'm pretty 140 00:06:10,870 --> 00:06:08,800 proud that my country decided to release 141 00:06:13,350 --> 00:06:10,880 a limited edition ufo coin it's 142 00:06:16,070 --> 00:06:13,360 absolutely it's so trippy man looking at 143 00:06:17,830 --> 00:06:16,080 this thing but again i love it i'm i 144 00:06:19,590 --> 00:06:17,840 really want to fork out the money here 145 00:06:21,510 --> 00:06:19,600 because how often do you get this could 146 00:06:23,670 --> 00:06:21,520 you imagine if the us ever did something 147 00:06:26,469 --> 00:06:23,680 like this i i can't even imagine if we 148 00:06:28,230 --> 00:06:26,479 got like a roswell one or this that this 149 00:06:30,469 --> 00:06:28,240 that and why not right why not there 150 00:06:31,909 --> 00:06:30,479 should be coins with ufos on them i mean 151 00:06:33,909 --> 00:06:31,919 i think they're interesting historically 152 00:06:36,070 --> 00:06:33,919 i wonder why they did it though like 153 00:06:38,230 --> 00:06:36,080 that's the question yeah of all the 154 00:06:40,550 --> 00:06:38,240 coins you could have made you know like 155 00:06:41,749 --> 00:06:40,560 and minted and like what you could have 156 00:06:43,270 --> 00:06:41,759 celebrated 157 00:06:45,350 --> 00:06:43,280 like 158 00:06:48,150 --> 00:06:45,360 a little ufo encounter right in the 159 00:06:50,469 --> 00:06:48,160 middle of like the the wilderness in in 160 00:06:52,390 --> 00:06:50,479 manitoba in canada is like i gotta be 161 00:06:54,390 --> 00:06:52,400 honest like you you have someone on the 162 00:06:55,909 --> 00:06:54,400 inside though like you've got one guy 163 00:06:57,350 --> 00:06:55,919 who sits on that board it's like you 164 00:06:59,830 --> 00:06:57,360 know we should do a ufo coin and 165 00:07:01,749 --> 00:06:59,840 everyone was just really high that day 166 00:07:04,070 --> 00:07:01,759 yeah you know what sounds great let's 167 00:07:05,749 --> 00:07:04,080 just do a ufo coin yeah who's got 168 00:07:07,510 --> 00:07:05,759 munchies you know and then it was just 169 00:07:08,710 --> 00:07:07,520 somehow voted in and all of a sudden we 170 00:07:11,510 --> 00:07:08,720 now have one 171 00:07:13,270 --> 00:07:11,520 it's ridiculous i i i'm still like 172 00:07:15,430 --> 00:07:13,280 trying to wrap my head around this and 173 00:07:17,670 --> 00:07:15,440 yeah i mean it's an interesting case i 174 00:07:19,909 --> 00:07:17,680 don't know much about it but uh i know 175 00:07:21,029 --> 00:07:19,919 that image of what uh what's our guy's 176 00:07:23,430 --> 00:07:21,039 name again 177 00:07:25,589 --> 00:07:23,440 stephanie steven yeah 178 00:07:28,550 --> 00:07:25,599 stefan as i put it very 179 00:07:30,309 --> 00:07:28,560 very uh elegant yeah he uh 180 00:07:32,629 --> 00:07:30,319 like that famous photo of him with like 181 00:07:34,469 --> 00:07:32,639 the radiation marks on his chest and 182 00:07:37,430 --> 00:07:34,479 whatnot like that photo's been making 183 00:07:39,589 --> 00:07:37,440 the rounds for decades um i never knew 184 00:07:40,710 --> 00:07:39,599 it was from this case actually yeah it's 185 00:07:42,790 --> 00:07:40,720 it's actually 186 00:07:44,629 --> 00:07:42,800 a really well investigated case i mean 187 00:07:46,710 --> 00:07:44,639 it's part of the blue book investigation 188 00:07:49,350 --> 00:07:46,720 so when blue book is running they they 189 00:07:51,189 --> 00:07:49,360 did come to investigate this case but 190 00:07:52,629 --> 00:07:51,199 they sort of well you know i mean you 191 00:07:55,110 --> 00:07:52,639 know the listeners of your show know 192 00:07:57,830 --> 00:07:55,120 blue book wasn't exactly the most 193 00:07:59,990 --> 00:07:57,840 legitimate sort of ufo investigation 194 00:08:02,469 --> 00:08:00,000 sort of ever done a lot of it was based 195 00:08:04,469 --> 00:08:02,479 upon debunking sort of the phenomenon 196 00:08:06,230 --> 00:08:04,479 not really investigating it properly so 197 00:08:08,550 --> 00:08:06,240 they made claims that you know he was 198 00:08:10,070 --> 00:08:08,560 burned by by his barbecue and you know 199 00:08:11,990 --> 00:08:10,080 he was drunk and he fell onto his 200 00:08:13,749 --> 00:08:12,000 barbecue and that's what burned him and 201 00:08:15,430 --> 00:08:13,759 uh you know all these other ridiculous 202 00:08:17,589 --> 00:08:15,440 claims that sort of this is what 203 00:08:19,670 --> 00:08:17,599 happened right meanwhile you know 204 00:08:22,070 --> 00:08:19,680 the mayo clinic uh which is where they 205 00:08:23,749 --> 00:08:22,080 went to sort of have him checked out 206 00:08:25,350 --> 00:08:23,759 sort of officially almost like zero 207 00:08:27,589 --> 00:08:25,360 chance this is a barbecue i mean the 208 00:08:29,589 --> 00:08:27,599 burns keep showing up you know every few 209 00:08:31,589 --> 00:08:29,599 months or every few years for some 210 00:08:33,829 --> 00:08:31,599 reason you know when the burns do show 211 00:08:36,630 --> 00:08:33,839 up he this man emits this sort of 212 00:08:37,829 --> 00:08:36,640 sulfur-like smell yeah and it sort of 213 00:08:39,110 --> 00:08:37,839 followed him for the rest of his life 214 00:08:41,589 --> 00:08:39,120 right and these burns would sort of 215 00:08:43,110 --> 00:08:41,599 recur every once in a while and no that 216 00:08:44,310 --> 00:08:43,120 like i've never seen a barbecue with 217 00:08:45,990 --> 00:08:44,320 like round 218 00:08:48,070 --> 00:08:46,000 grills right you know like a barbecue 219 00:08:50,550 --> 00:08:48,080 has like a you know the typical kind of 220 00:08:53,110 --> 00:08:50,560 linear grill marks uh and he sort of has 221 00:08:54,389 --> 00:08:53,120 these round burns and stuff so this was 222 00:08:56,070 --> 00:08:54,399 one of those cases i think that blue 223 00:08:58,630 --> 00:08:56,080 book kind of went out of their way to 224 00:09:00,790 --> 00:08:58,640 sort of try and debunk um rather than 225 00:09:01,910 --> 00:09:00,800 sort of properly investigate 226 00:09:03,110 --> 00:09:01,920 um 227 00:09:04,870 --> 00:09:03,120 it didn't help that he was sort of you 228 00:09:06,550 --> 00:09:04,880 know a polish immigrant didn't speak 229 00:09:07,910 --> 00:09:06,560 english very well you know i think that 230 00:09:09,190 --> 00:09:07,920 there was maybe a little i'm not gonna 231 00:09:10,710 --> 00:09:09,200 claim that there was racism but i think 232 00:09:12,470 --> 00:09:10,720 there may have been a little bit of you 233 00:09:15,350 --> 00:09:12,480 know discrimination a little bit 234 00:09:17,829 --> 00:09:15,360 you know he wasn't exactly you know a uh 235 00:09:19,829 --> 00:09:17,839 a military man and he wasn't exactly um 236 00:09:22,550 --> 00:09:19,839 you know a ceo of a company right he was 237 00:09:25,350 --> 00:09:22,560 a blue-collar polish guy 238 00:09:28,949 --> 00:09:25,360 with a very very huge interest in like 239 00:09:31,110 --> 00:09:28,959 geology so you know i can see them just 240 00:09:32,550 --> 00:09:31,120 trying to write this one off yeah 241 00:09:34,389 --> 00:09:32,560 none of that i mean he made a lot of 242 00:09:36,070 --> 00:09:34,399 strange claims i mean you know the thing 243 00:09:38,630 --> 00:09:36,080 landed he walked up to it he leaned 244 00:09:40,790 --> 00:09:38,640 inside he heard a couple voices you know 245 00:09:43,030 --> 00:09:40,800 like there was a lot of um strange 246 00:09:44,389 --> 00:09:43,040 claims but the one thing that you can't 247 00:09:46,230 --> 00:09:44,399 sort of dismiss is the fact that he did 248 00:09:48,230 --> 00:09:46,240 get burned right he did see doctors it's 249 00:09:49,670 --> 00:09:48,240 all documented it's documented in police 250 00:09:50,630 --> 00:09:49,680 records it's documented in hospital 251 00:09:52,070 --> 00:09:50,640 records 252 00:09:54,949 --> 00:09:52,080 it's documented in blue book i mean 253 00:09:57,110 --> 00:09:54,959 there's so much evidence to support this 254 00:09:58,550 --> 00:09:57,120 case that something weird happened you 255 00:09:59,750 --> 00:09:58,560 can't just you know write it off as 256 00:10:01,829 --> 00:09:59,760 being a drunk guy who fell on his 257 00:10:04,150 --> 00:10:01,839 barbecue exactly yeah and i mean i've 258 00:10:06,790 --> 00:10:04,160 seen you know recent interviews with his 259 00:10:08,310 --> 00:10:06,800 son and you know he he tears up every 260 00:10:10,470 --> 00:10:08,320 time he starts talking about this 261 00:10:13,190 --> 00:10:10,480 because his father you know passed away 262 00:10:14,710 --> 00:10:13,200 and to this day the son genuinely 263 00:10:17,350 --> 00:10:14,720 believes that this happened to his 264 00:10:20,310 --> 00:10:17,360 father that means nothing you know to to 265 00:10:22,630 --> 00:10:20,320 the public at large it's only this son's 266 00:10:24,550 --> 00:10:22,640 belief in his father which we all want 267 00:10:26,949 --> 00:10:24,560 to believe anything our fathers tell us 268 00:10:29,509 --> 00:10:26,959 but uh yeah man i mean there's something 269 00:10:33,110 --> 00:10:29,519 to that you know when when you hear a 270 00:10:34,710 --> 00:10:33,120 story like that and uh your your kids 271 00:10:36,630 --> 00:10:34,720 back you up and 272 00:10:39,030 --> 00:10:36,640 that really convinced me i mean i know 273 00:10:41,030 --> 00:10:39,040 that's not going on much and as a 274 00:10:43,110 --> 00:10:41,040 researcher and investigator i should go 275 00:10:45,590 --> 00:10:43,120 on more to 276 00:10:47,269 --> 00:10:45,600 to look at a case but um again it's that 277 00:10:49,750 --> 00:10:47,279 human aspect that always gets to me 278 00:10:51,829 --> 00:10:49,760 which we will talk about in a little bit 279 00:10:53,990 --> 00:10:51,839 but uh yeah fascinating nonetheless if 280 00:10:55,670 --> 00:10:54,000 they're gonna do a case and make a coin 281 00:10:57,110 --> 00:10:55,680 out of it i think this was the one to do 282 00:10:58,710 --> 00:10:57,120 it for for sure 283 00:11:00,710 --> 00:10:58,720 yeah i got actually it's interesting i 284 00:11:02,949 --> 00:11:00,720 got to meet his son last year um really 285 00:11:05,190 --> 00:11:02,959 at sort of a talk that was given by him 286 00:11:07,269 --> 00:11:05,200 and chris rutkowski who helped him out 287 00:11:09,350 --> 00:11:07,279 with sort of re-releasing the original 288 00:11:11,590 --> 00:11:09,360 book about this case right and it was 289 00:11:13,990 --> 00:11:11,600 fascinating because they had like a talk 290 00:11:16,790 --> 00:11:14,000 um sort of a q a and everything and like 291 00:11:19,430 --> 00:11:16,800 it's crazy to to listen to this this 292 00:11:21,910 --> 00:11:19,440 sort of he's i mean he's in his 50s now 293 00:11:23,829 --> 00:11:21,920 but his son talked about you know how 294 00:11:26,470 --> 00:11:23,839 his parents marriage was affected as a 295 00:11:29,910 --> 00:11:26,480 result of this incident right how his 296 00:11:31,269 --> 00:11:29,920 dad became very very sort of depressed 297 00:11:33,350 --> 00:11:31,279 and became very disconnected from his 298 00:11:35,350 --> 00:11:33,360 family because of this odd event and and 299 00:11:37,430 --> 00:11:35,360 none of that he became quite ill like he 300 00:11:39,590 --> 00:11:37,440 he like his hair fell out he was 301 00:11:41,670 --> 00:11:39,600 nauseous all the time he was barely he 302 00:11:43,829 --> 00:11:41,680 suddenly his dad he said his dad lost 303 00:11:45,430 --> 00:11:43,839 something like 50 pounds as a result of 304 00:11:47,030 --> 00:11:45,440 this incident because he just got sick 305 00:11:48,949 --> 00:11:47,040 and he was and he was hyper ill for a 306 00:11:50,150 --> 00:11:48,959 long time and like like i said like 307 00:11:51,990 --> 00:11:50,160 these burn marks would come back every 308 00:11:53,509 --> 00:11:52,000 once in a while and like this stench 309 00:11:54,870 --> 00:11:53,519 would fill the house like he said like 310 00:11:56,710 --> 00:11:54,880 rotten eggs and 311 00:11:58,150 --> 00:11:56,720 and it's just like the the whole family 312 00:12:00,310 --> 00:11:58,160 was affected right it wasn't just this 313 00:12:01,910 --> 00:12:00,320 one man it was the family the community 314 00:12:03,910 --> 00:12:01,920 right you know he was the crazy guy who 315 00:12:05,829 --> 00:12:03,920 saw a ufo like i mean you can imagine 316 00:12:07,509 --> 00:12:05,839 you know i'm sure as a as a as a good 317 00:12:08,870 --> 00:12:07,519 sort of polish immigrant to canada you 318 00:12:10,310 --> 00:12:08,880 know how do you go to church on sundays 319 00:12:11,590 --> 00:12:10,320 and not have people talk about you 320 00:12:13,190 --> 00:12:11,600 behind your back and like you know i 321 00:12:15,350 --> 00:12:13,200 can't imagine yeah and you know what 322 00:12:17,910 --> 00:12:15,360 this this reminds me so much of the cash 323 00:12:20,150 --> 00:12:17,920 landrum case as well you know you know 324 00:12:20,949 --> 00:12:20,160 so much physical trace evidence in terms 325 00:12:23,350 --> 00:12:20,959 of 326 00:12:25,350 --> 00:12:23,360 possible radiation and whatnot and you 327 00:12:27,190 --> 00:12:25,360 know things hair falling out this and 328 00:12:29,590 --> 00:12:27,200 that and it really 329 00:12:32,150 --> 00:12:29,600 really makes me think both cash landrum 330 00:12:35,269 --> 00:12:32,160 and this case that we were dealing with 331 00:12:37,190 --> 00:12:35,279 something military uh top secret but who 332 00:12:38,389 --> 00:12:37,200 am i to say but that's kind of what it 333 00:12:39,990 --> 00:12:38,399 sounds like to me 334 00:12:41,509 --> 00:12:40,000 and if the guy's going to go around 335 00:12:43,750 --> 00:12:41,519 saying it was a 336 00:12:44,949 --> 00:12:43,760 space aliens of course they're not going 337 00:12:46,550 --> 00:12:44,959 to argue that they're going to be like 338 00:12:48,790 --> 00:12:46,560 great let him keep saying that but i 339 00:12:50,550 --> 00:12:48,800 feel so bad for him 340 00:12:52,310 --> 00:12:50,560 oh anyway it's funny because he actually 341 00:12:54,069 --> 00:12:52,320 it's in the book he didn't think it was 342 00:12:55,910 --> 00:12:54,079 aliens at all like he he was totally 343 00:12:57,430 --> 00:12:55,920 convinced it was 344 00:13:00,949 --> 00:12:57,440 like an american 345 00:13:03,350 --> 00:13:00,959 advanced like propulsion like he 346 00:13:05,110 --> 00:13:03,360 in the book as he walks up to the ship 347 00:13:07,990 --> 00:13:05,120 or whatever this thing that's landed on 348 00:13:10,710 --> 00:13:08,000 this rock he and he leans inside and he 349 00:13:12,310 --> 00:13:10,720 yells do you yanks need some help 350 00:13:14,150 --> 00:13:12,320 that's what he yells right because he 351 00:13:16,310 --> 00:13:14,160 was convinced it was just some american 352 00:13:17,910 --> 00:13:16,320 piece of you know hardware that was 353 00:13:19,430 --> 00:13:17,920 coming out of the cold war and you know 354 00:13:21,030 --> 00:13:19,440 it just you know they had to land it 355 00:13:23,030 --> 00:13:21,040 somewhere i guess and this was a perfect 356 00:13:26,069 --> 00:13:23,040 place you know clearing in the woods so 357 00:13:28,310 --> 00:13:26,079 yeah no in fact he he went to his grave 358 00:13:32,069 --> 00:13:28,320 never at all claiming it was aliens um 359 00:13:33,910 --> 00:13:32,079 he he he died believing it was 360 00:13:36,629 --> 00:13:33,920 um some advanced piece of human 361 00:13:37,910 --> 00:13:36,639 technology um i think other people 362 00:13:39,509 --> 00:13:37,920 started to sort of think it was 363 00:13:40,629 --> 00:13:39,519 potentially alien or something and that 364 00:13:43,430 --> 00:13:40,639 sort of just became part of the 365 00:13:45,829 --> 00:13:43,440 mythology right as it often does anytime 366 00:13:48,230 --> 00:13:45,839 you hear a ufo it always it always goes 367 00:13:50,230 --> 00:13:48,240 back to et which is one of the biggest 368 00:13:52,710 --> 00:13:50,240 problems we have these days and that 369 00:13:54,150 --> 00:13:52,720 we've had for a long long time but i 370 00:13:55,829 --> 00:13:54,160 mean there are people out there looking 371 00:13:58,550 --> 00:13:55,839 at it differently and that's all we can 372 00:14:00,790 --> 00:13:58,560 really ask for but uh yeah interesting 373 00:14:02,150 --> 00:14:00,800 there was one thing i wanted to bring up 374 00:14:06,550 --> 00:14:02,160 to you i brought it up to you tonight 375 00:14:08,870 --> 00:14:06,560 man this is a find i just made yesterday 376 00:14:10,870 --> 00:14:08,880 and i don't even know if i i'm sure some 377 00:14:12,790 --> 00:14:10,880 of the people in the quote unquote ufo 378 00:14:15,910 --> 00:14:12,800 community know about this but it was 379 00:14:18,870 --> 00:14:15,920 news to me and i am loving it this is a 380 00:14:21,430 --> 00:14:18,880 podcast i found it's called oh no ross 381 00:14:24,710 --> 00:14:21,440 and cary so it's this this woman in this 382 00:14:27,110 --> 00:14:24,720 man in los angeles and they go to ufo 383 00:14:30,710 --> 00:14:27,120 conferences all around the country and 384 00:14:33,110 --> 00:14:30,720 they review every talk in every speaker 385 00:14:35,990 --> 00:14:33,120 that they see so they went to the ozark 386 00:14:38,069 --> 00:14:36,000 ufo conference last year they broke it 387 00:14:41,030 --> 00:14:38,079 up into i think like six episodes 388 00:14:42,949 --> 00:14:41,040 they're like 50 minutes each and they go 389 00:14:44,949 --> 00:14:42,959 so in-depth like talking about each 390 00:14:47,670 --> 00:14:44,959 speaker what they look like their 391 00:14:49,670 --> 00:14:47,680 mannerisms um how they acted before 392 00:14:52,069 --> 00:14:49,680 their talk how they responded to 393 00:14:53,910 --> 00:14:52,079 questions after and then they do a deep 394 00:14:57,110 --> 00:14:53,920 dive into each of them and oh my god 395 00:14:59,350 --> 00:14:57,120 dude like it is the most entertaining 396 00:15:01,590 --> 00:14:59,360 and eye-opening thing i've heard in a 397 00:15:03,430 --> 00:15:01,600 long time from people from the outside 398 00:15:05,509 --> 00:15:03,440 which i think is really 399 00:15:07,910 --> 00:15:05,519 interesting you know i i i don't know 400 00:15:10,150 --> 00:15:07,920 about you but i feel so embedded in this 401 00:15:12,710 --> 00:15:10,160 stuff that i almost feel loyalty to some 402 00:15:15,030 --> 00:15:12,720 of these these people these you know the 403 00:15:18,470 --> 00:15:15,040 quote unquote like the big guns in the 404 00:15:20,230 --> 00:15:18,480 field to respect everything they say and 405 00:15:23,269 --> 00:15:20,240 when you start to hear someone from the 406 00:15:24,870 --> 00:15:23,279 outside making extremely logical 407 00:15:26,710 --> 00:15:24,880 observations about some of the things 408 00:15:29,269 --> 00:15:26,720 these people are saying it's 409 00:15:33,350 --> 00:15:29,279 crazy like yeah some of the stuff they 410 00:15:35,670 --> 00:15:33,360 say is absolutely nuts so oh yeah 411 00:15:37,509 --> 00:15:35,680 i'm so happy i found it it's a little 412 00:15:40,310 --> 00:15:37,519 uncomfortable when i hear them talk 413 00:15:43,030 --> 00:15:40,320 about you know friends of mine who i 414 00:15:44,150 --> 00:15:43,040 talk to on a daily basis but at the same 415 00:15:47,110 --> 00:15:44,160 time 416 00:15:48,710 --> 00:15:47,120 it's it's amazing it's refreshing and i 417 00:15:50,629 --> 00:15:48,720 i wanted to let you know about that and 418 00:15:53,030 --> 00:15:50,639 for any of the listeners out there go 419 00:15:55,990 --> 00:15:53,040 check this out oh no ross and kerry 420 00:15:58,949 --> 00:15:56,000 podcast i mean uh steven career 421 00:15:59,749 --> 00:15:58,959 holy that was 422 00:16:00,790 --> 00:15:59,759 like 423 00:16:02,629 --> 00:16:00,800 really 424 00:16:03,670 --> 00:16:02,639 yeah you how do you not rip them apart 425 00:16:04,949 --> 00:16:03,680 but okay 426 00:16:06,870 --> 00:16:04,959 i'm subscribing i literally just 427 00:16:07,590 --> 00:16:06,880 subscribed on podcast so i'm gonna enjoy 428 00:16:09,509 --> 00:16:07,600 this 429 00:16:11,910 --> 00:16:09,519 it's great man contact in the desert 430 00:16:14,230 --> 00:16:11,920 they went to you know yeah they talk 431 00:16:17,910 --> 00:16:14,240 about you know everything from you know 432 00:16:20,150 --> 00:16:17,920 giorgio suclose to uh eric von danigan 433 00:16:22,230 --> 00:16:20,160 and it's it's great like they they're 434 00:16:24,790 --> 00:16:22,240 respectful but at the same time they 435 00:16:28,230 --> 00:16:24,800 keep it real so for anyone out there who 436 00:16:30,389 --> 00:16:28,240 wants to hear the other side of ufo 437 00:16:32,790 --> 00:16:30,399 conjecture i guess this is definitely 438 00:16:34,230 --> 00:16:32,800 one for you so yeah you know if you 439 00:16:35,430 --> 00:16:34,240 bring up an interesting point this idea 440 00:16:37,430 --> 00:16:35,440 of we're gonna get into our first 441 00:16:39,990 --> 00:16:37,440 conversation this idea of sort of trying 442 00:16:41,829 --> 00:16:40,000 to remain loyal to 443 00:16:43,189 --> 00:16:41,839 sort of like people in the field right 444 00:16:44,790 --> 00:16:43,199 or or like you say the big guns right 445 00:16:47,269 --> 00:16:44,800 like the experts or whatever and it's 446 00:16:48,710 --> 00:16:47,279 interesting because we need to kind of 447 00:16:50,710 --> 00:16:48,720 think about you know why we do this 448 00:16:54,629 --> 00:16:50,720 right like why do we 449 00:16:57,269 --> 00:16:54,639 defer common sense or why do we defer 450 00:17:01,110 --> 00:16:57,279 critical thought to just being like okay 451 00:17:03,189 --> 00:17:01,120 i i i believe you right um and 452 00:17:04,309 --> 00:17:03,199 it's i think that there 453 00:17:06,309 --> 00:17:04,319 i think that's maybe there's two things 454 00:17:09,350 --> 00:17:06,319 i think first the ufo community or ufo 455 00:17:12,789 --> 00:17:09,360 subculture is so sort of fringy that 456 00:17:14,789 --> 00:17:12,799 ultimately anyone who sort of 457 00:17:17,110 --> 00:17:14,799 puts the message out there kind of puts 458 00:17:18,549 --> 00:17:17,120 the message out for everyone right like 459 00:17:20,789 --> 00:17:18,559 like you it's sort of it's like some 460 00:17:23,189 --> 00:17:20,799 sort of odd rights movement right like 461 00:17:25,990 --> 00:17:23,199 the ufo rights movement right like any 462 00:17:29,350 --> 00:17:26,000 progress is progress regardless of what 463 00:17:31,510 --> 00:17:29,360 that progress is so when stephen greer 464 00:17:34,390 --> 00:17:31,520 gets you know his two documentaries on 465 00:17:36,230 --> 00:17:34,400 netflix into like a mainstream 466 00:17:37,029 --> 00:17:36,240 like netflix is a mainstream provider 467 00:17:38,870 --> 00:17:37,039 yeah 468 00:17:40,710 --> 00:17:38,880 carrying a bunch of ufo documentaries i 469 00:17:41,909 --> 00:17:40,720 mean i think you know when he gets his 470 00:17:43,510 --> 00:17:41,919 two in there we're kind of like you know 471 00:17:44,950 --> 00:17:43,520 okay well that's good because the 472 00:17:46,710 --> 00:17:44,960 message is gonna get out there i mean 473 00:17:48,549 --> 00:17:46,720 it's grier's message which is 474 00:17:51,350 --> 00:17:48,559 nonsensical half the time and pretty 475 00:17:53,990 --> 00:17:51,360 dubious but it's still getting out there 476 00:17:55,190 --> 00:17:54,000 so that people will then maybe 477 00:17:56,549 --> 00:17:55,200 watch it and then they'll do more 478 00:17:58,390 --> 00:17:56,559 research and then eventually like 479 00:18:00,710 --> 00:17:58,400 hopefully learn how crazy it is but you 480 00:18:02,310 --> 00:18:00,720 know keep going down that road you know 481 00:18:04,310 --> 00:18:02,320 is that one thing is that why we kind of 482 00:18:06,390 --> 00:18:04,320 try to stay loyal a little bit it's a 483 00:18:09,029 --> 00:18:06,400 struggle yeah i mean i remember back 484 00:18:11,590 --> 00:18:09,039 when unacknowledged first came out and i 485 00:18:13,909 --> 00:18:11,600 went on a tirade i'm like i will never 486 00:18:15,750 --> 00:18:13,919 talk about that documentary on my show i 487 00:18:17,750 --> 00:18:15,760 will never have steven grier on 488 00:18:19,750 --> 00:18:17,760 that guy you know i'm like a curmudgeon 489 00:18:21,510 --> 00:18:19,760 at this point with it but 490 00:18:23,669 --> 00:18:21,520 then my girlfriend really you know 491 00:18:26,710 --> 00:18:23,679 calmed me down and she's like look at 492 00:18:29,990 --> 00:18:26,720 least the ufo topic is being discussed 493 00:18:31,990 --> 00:18:30,000 in a public like a mainstream uh outlet 494 00:18:34,150 --> 00:18:32,000 such as netflix and whatnot again like 495 00:18:35,750 --> 00:18:34,160 you said it's the message that gets out 496 00:18:37,590 --> 00:18:35,760 there and you and i have talked in the 497 00:18:39,750 --> 00:18:37,600 past about you know and you know robbie 498 00:18:41,750 --> 00:18:39,760 graham would have i i think agree with 499 00:18:45,270 --> 00:18:41,760 this too if having someone like tom 500 00:18:47,830 --> 00:18:45,280 delong as the face of ufology like is 501 00:18:49,110 --> 00:18:47,840 that good that now we have someone that 502 00:18:51,909 --> 00:18:49,120 is getting it out there to the 503 00:18:54,230 --> 00:18:51,919 mainstream but it's his agenda it's his 504 00:18:55,029 --> 00:18:54,240 message it's whatever you know books he 505 00:18:57,590 --> 00:18:55,039 read 506 00:19:00,789 --> 00:18:57,600 by career included um that is going to 507 00:19:03,990 --> 00:19:00,799 get out there and it it is it's a weird 508 00:19:07,029 --> 00:19:04,000 game of loyalties and 509 00:19:08,549 --> 00:19:07,039 alliances and i i don't think it does 510 00:19:11,029 --> 00:19:08,559 the field any 511 00:19:11,909 --> 00:19:11,039 any good with that stuff but at the same 512 00:19:13,350 --> 00:19:11,919 time 513 00:19:15,029 --> 00:19:13,360 you know what do you do what do you do 514 00:19:17,270 --> 00:19:15,039 when like someone you've looked up to 515 00:19:18,950 --> 00:19:17,280 for so long finds out that they've been 516 00:19:21,510 --> 00:19:18,960 lied to for 517 00:19:24,390 --> 00:19:21,520 you know 25 odd years about one of the 518 00:19:26,870 --> 00:19:24,400 most famous ufo cases um 519 00:19:28,230 --> 00:19:26,880 it's hard man and i i find myself 520 00:19:29,830 --> 00:19:28,240 between a rock and a hard place 521 00:19:31,590 --> 00:19:29,840 constantly with that i don't know about 522 00:19:32,950 --> 00:19:31,600 you well i think you also have you know 523 00:19:35,909 --> 00:19:32,960 we also have to contend with the fact 524 00:19:37,669 --> 00:19:35,919 that the yofo community 525 00:19:39,590 --> 00:19:37,679 how to put this 526 00:19:40,630 --> 00:19:39,600 gently 527 00:19:43,510 --> 00:19:40,640 there are 528 00:19:46,549 --> 00:19:43,520 a few individuals let's say in the ufo 529 00:19:47,990 --> 00:19:46,559 community a few in the ufo community who 530 00:19:50,150 --> 00:19:48,000 you know we could probably say are are 531 00:19:51,830 --> 00:19:50,160 very extreme to the point where if you 532 00:19:52,710 --> 00:19:51,840 question 533 00:19:58,870 --> 00:19:52,720 their 534 00:20:01,430 --> 00:19:58,880 hypotheses or theories um not only do 535 00:20:03,990 --> 00:20:01,440 they come swinging at you their cronies 536 00:20:05,830 --> 00:20:04,000 come swinging at you right yes and and 537 00:20:08,230 --> 00:20:05,840 you know i don't want to pick on steven 538 00:20:10,310 --> 00:20:08,240 greer much more because i fear the wrath 539 00:20:12,789 --> 00:20:10,320 of his cronies but he has a lot of he 540 00:20:14,710 --> 00:20:12,799 has a lot of people who buy into his 541 00:20:16,230 --> 00:20:14,720 message another character 542 00:20:18,150 --> 00:20:16,240 like this is like corey good or david 543 00:20:21,029 --> 00:20:18,160 wilcock they have a significant 544 00:20:22,710 --> 00:20:21,039 following and being critical of them 545 00:20:25,750 --> 00:20:22,720 they're able to muster a sort of a 546 00:20:27,830 --> 00:20:25,760 significant force of of people to sort 547 00:20:29,990 --> 00:20:27,840 of go after you right whether it's 548 00:20:31,750 --> 00:20:30,000 emails or hate mail or whether you know 549 00:20:33,270 --> 00:20:31,760 you you go on their youtube channel like 550 00:20:35,270 --> 00:20:33,280 you know like like they'll know start 551 00:20:37,190 --> 00:20:35,280 believing belittling you on their 552 00:20:39,510 --> 00:20:37,200 youtube channel they'll say you're part 553 00:20:41,270 --> 00:20:39,520 of the the cabal or whatever and all of 554 00:20:43,190 --> 00:20:41,280 a sudden you know there's 555 00:20:45,590 --> 00:20:43,200 20 000 people out there who no longer 556 00:20:47,750 --> 00:20:45,600 like you right and are willing to some 557 00:20:49,590 --> 00:20:47,760 of them are willing to you know make 558 00:20:50,950 --> 00:20:49,600 your life a living hell they'll try and 559 00:20:52,310 --> 00:20:50,960 hack your facebook account they'll try 560 00:20:53,590 --> 00:20:52,320 and hack other social media stuff 561 00:20:55,669 --> 00:20:53,600 they'll try to break into your emails 562 00:20:57,270 --> 00:20:55,679 they'll they'll post pictures of you 563 00:20:58,390 --> 00:20:57,280 like public you know publicity photos 564 00:20:59,590 --> 00:20:58,400 you've done or whatever or anything you 565 00:21:01,270 --> 00:20:59,600 know they'll just post pictures of them 566 00:21:03,110 --> 00:21:01,280 that are all warped and morphed and 567 00:21:04,789 --> 00:21:03,120 they'll release fake blog posts about 568 00:21:07,190 --> 00:21:04,799 you know like they'll just kind of 569 00:21:10,310 --> 00:21:07,200 really rake you over the coals a little 570 00:21:12,149 --> 00:21:10,320 bit yeah it's like leaving scientology 571 00:21:16,230 --> 00:21:12,159 yeah as like a punishment like how dare 572 00:21:17,350 --> 00:21:16,240 you question our you know cult leader so 573 00:21:19,110 --> 00:21:17,360 that's another thing i mean i think 574 00:21:20,230 --> 00:21:19,120 people in the uf ufo community also are 575 00:21:22,310 --> 00:21:20,240 aware of this right you have to be very 576 00:21:24,070 --> 00:21:22,320 cautious and and you have to be willing 577 00:21:25,350 --> 00:21:24,080 to take a hit if you're going to kind of 578 00:21:27,750 --> 00:21:25,360 go that route like if you're going to 579 00:21:30,310 --> 00:21:27,760 you know walk out and say publicly that 580 00:21:31,750 --> 00:21:30,320 you know like corey goode is a fraud you 581 00:21:34,149 --> 00:21:31,760 need to be prepared that corey goods 582 00:21:35,830 --> 00:21:34,159 guys are going to come after you and and 583 00:21:37,110 --> 00:21:35,840 you know try and tear you a new 584 00:21:39,110 --> 00:21:37,120 you know now i'm fortunate i don't have 585 00:21:41,190 --> 00:21:39,120 a podcast so i can say you know kind of 586 00:21:42,630 --> 00:21:41,200 whatever you want and it doesn't matter 587 00:21:45,110 --> 00:21:42,640 because the people 588 00:21:46,870 --> 00:21:45,120 corey good's followers don't read me you 589 00:21:48,710 --> 00:21:46,880 know what i mean but if you i can 590 00:21:49,990 --> 00:21:48,720 imagine like if you have i'm not saying 591 00:21:52,310 --> 00:21:50,000 i'm not using an example but i mean if 592 00:21:54,549 --> 00:21:52,320 you have a broader podcast like let's 593 00:21:57,190 --> 00:21:54,559 say fade to black or coast to coast 594 00:22:00,149 --> 00:21:57,200 right um you can't really alienate 595 00:22:01,750 --> 00:22:00,159 anyone because ultimately you need them 596 00:22:03,110 --> 00:22:01,760 at some point to listen to your show 597 00:22:05,029 --> 00:22:03,120 right like you can't 598 00:22:07,510 --> 00:22:05,039 you can't come out and say corey good as 599 00:22:09,990 --> 00:22:07,520 a fraud because you know that you might 600 00:22:11,909 --> 00:22:10,000 lose 50 000 followers as a result or 50 601 00:22:13,430 --> 00:22:11,919 000 listeners as a result and that means 602 00:22:15,590 --> 00:22:13,440 revenue that means money that means 603 00:22:17,029 --> 00:22:15,600 publicity that means a whole lot so 604 00:22:18,310 --> 00:22:17,039 there's i think that factor as well i 605 00:22:20,310 --> 00:22:18,320 think i think it's sort of like a this 606 00:22:22,789 --> 00:22:20,320 double-edged sword right we we want to 607 00:22:25,909 --> 00:22:22,799 support the ufo community we want we 608 00:22:27,510 --> 00:22:25,919 want our own to make it but there's a 609 00:22:29,990 --> 00:22:27,520 lot of people within the ufo community 610 00:22:32,470 --> 00:22:30,000 who whose messages are not only 611 00:22:34,470 --> 00:22:32,480 fraudulent but they are purposely lying 612 00:22:37,590 --> 00:22:34,480 for the sake of gaining notoriety or 613 00:22:39,510 --> 00:22:37,600 money or or whatever glory to run the 614 00:22:41,110 --> 00:22:39,520 conference circuit so 615 00:22:43,590 --> 00:22:41,120 it's yeah it's sort of dubious and 616 00:22:46,070 --> 00:22:43,600 nefarious i think so and i think you 617 00:22:47,990 --> 00:22:46,080 know greg bishop brings this up a lot 618 00:22:50,630 --> 00:22:48,000 too and i'd have to agree with him on 619 00:22:53,590 --> 00:22:50,640 this the the ufo researcher do your own 620 00:22:55,510 --> 00:22:53,600 work and just worry about that i i i'm 621 00:22:57,669 --> 00:22:55,520 finding more and more the more i want to 622 00:22:59,510 --> 00:22:57,679 attack the corey goodes or the stephen 623 00:23:02,070 --> 00:22:59,520 griers or jimmy church why are you 624 00:23:04,870 --> 00:23:02,080 having these guys on this that like i i 625 00:23:07,350 --> 00:23:04,880 understand at a point like yeah like 626 00:23:08,870 --> 00:23:07,360 this is your job like 627 00:23:10,789 --> 00:23:08,880 your family is not going to eat if you 628 00:23:12,390 --> 00:23:10,799 don't get those those list that 629 00:23:14,789 --> 00:23:12,400 listenership you're looking for for a 630 00:23:17,029 --> 00:23:14,799 radio show i get it i get that and i 631 00:23:19,029 --> 00:23:17,039 think everyone should have a chance to 632 00:23:21,270 --> 00:23:19,039 voice you know their theories their 633 00:23:23,430 --> 00:23:21,280 thoughts and he gives them that outlet 634 00:23:26,310 --> 00:23:23,440 is that something i want to do no i i 635 00:23:29,510 --> 00:23:26,320 don't um so the more i've tried to 636 00:23:31,909 --> 00:23:29,520 temper my my anger with people in the 637 00:23:33,830 --> 00:23:31,919 ufo field the more i realize you know in 638 00:23:35,510 --> 00:23:33,840 the greater scheme of things it doesn't 639 00:23:38,789 --> 00:23:35,520 really matter you know they're gonna 640 00:23:42,549 --> 00:23:38,799 have their faction that believe him and 641 00:23:45,430 --> 00:23:42,559 follow him until his dying day and then 642 00:23:47,590 --> 00:23:45,440 there's the other end where you've got 643 00:23:49,590 --> 00:23:47,600 people who are just doing their work 644 00:23:51,590 --> 00:23:49,600 underground and being like look i found 645 00:23:53,590 --> 00:23:51,600 this you know what do you think of this 646 00:23:55,909 --> 00:23:53,600 and they're doing their thing so while 647 00:23:58,710 --> 00:23:55,919 it's a very fractured field and i use 648 00:24:01,669 --> 00:23:58,720 that word field very with a lot of 649 00:24:03,350 --> 00:24:01,679 flexibility um it's interesting man and 650 00:24:05,510 --> 00:24:03,360 i don't know where i lay in the grand 651 00:24:08,070 --> 00:24:05,520 scheme of you know loyalty and whatnot 652 00:24:11,029 --> 00:24:08,080 but uh that whole the whole term ufo 653 00:24:13,110 --> 00:24:11,039 community just rubs me the wrong way and 654 00:24:15,590 --> 00:24:13,120 i i don't know where i stand on it to be 655 00:24:16,789 --> 00:24:15,600 honest yeah it's it's pretty nebulous 656 00:24:18,789 --> 00:24:16,799 i've been doing a lot of research into 657 00:24:20,710 --> 00:24:18,799 this and it's very nervous like there is 658 00:24:22,470 --> 00:24:20,720 you know how do you define someone who's 659 00:24:24,230 --> 00:24:22,480 a member of the ufo community right 660 00:24:25,750 --> 00:24:24,240 there is really no 661 00:24:27,909 --> 00:24:25,760 there's no governing body right like 662 00:24:29,029 --> 00:24:27,919 there's no organization that sort of 663 00:24:31,430 --> 00:24:29,039 says you know 664 00:24:33,750 --> 00:24:31,440 this is what makes someone a member or 665 00:24:35,750 --> 00:24:33,760 not you know there's no there's no ivory 666 00:24:37,750 --> 00:24:35,760 tower like there's no real system in 667 00:24:39,830 --> 00:24:37,760 place right it's kind of this it's the 668 00:24:42,149 --> 00:24:39,840 subculture where where there's no 669 00:24:44,710 --> 00:24:42,159 borders right it just kind of 670 00:24:47,990 --> 00:24:44,720 is but it's weird because that being 671 00:24:49,909 --> 00:24:48,000 said while there is no sort of border 672 00:24:51,830 --> 00:24:49,919 that encapsulates sort of the ufo 673 00:24:54,230 --> 00:24:51,840 community um you and i can still sit 674 00:24:55,590 --> 00:24:54,240 down and talk about it and use language 675 00:24:57,669 --> 00:24:55,600 we both understand and we use the 676 00:24:59,029 --> 00:24:57,679 buzzwords and you know like we you 677 00:25:00,870 --> 00:24:59,039 communicate about it because we're both 678 00:25:03,269 --> 00:25:00,880 members right 679 00:25:04,870 --> 00:25:03,279 we sort of engage with the discourse so 680 00:25:07,190 --> 00:25:04,880 it's really funny to think about like 681 00:25:09,590 --> 00:25:07,200 how does one become a member and how is 682 00:25:12,390 --> 00:25:09,600 one not a member and and where do we 683 00:25:13,590 --> 00:25:12,400 draw lines right yeah and can we can we 684 00:25:15,269 --> 00:25:13,600 even draw lines and that's sort of the 685 00:25:17,110 --> 00:25:15,279 bigger question is it even possible 686 00:25:18,310 --> 00:25:17,120 absolutely i mean my mentor peter 687 00:25:20,149 --> 00:25:18,320 roberts always said if you want to be a 688 00:25:22,070 --> 00:25:20,159 ufo just spin around three times and 689 00:25:24,630 --> 00:25:22,080 touch your nose and 690 00:25:26,710 --> 00:25:24,640 you know i i followed that to this day 691 00:25:28,870 --> 00:25:26,720 and it's interesting because you know 692 00:25:31,269 --> 00:25:28,880 as you know younger researchers we get 693 00:25:33,350 --> 00:25:31,279 tapped for like tv shows all the time 694 00:25:35,510 --> 00:25:33,360 because they want those young faces to 695 00:25:37,510 --> 00:25:35,520 tell them what these things are in our 696 00:25:38,630 --> 00:25:37,520 skies and they're like well you're 697 00:25:41,750 --> 00:25:38,640 you're like 698 00:25:42,470 --> 00:25:41,760 one of the the ufo experts right and 699 00:25:48,230 --> 00:25:42,480 no 700 00:25:50,870 --> 00:25:48,240 into it i've got a podcast but that's as 701 00:25:53,990 --> 00:25:50,880 far as as i go in terms of saying that 702 00:25:56,789 --> 00:25:54,000 i'm a ufo researcher i read books i 703 00:25:58,630 --> 00:25:56,799 interview people and i have a show that 704 00:26:01,190 --> 00:25:58,640 i talk about it with with people like 705 00:26:03,269 --> 00:26:01,200 you there is no ivory tower there's no 706 00:26:05,110 --> 00:26:03,279 lieutenants there's no generals there's 707 00:26:05,909 --> 00:26:05,120 no king 708 00:26:08,789 --> 00:26:05,919 it's interesting it's a 709 00:26:11,110 --> 00:26:08,799 self-perpetuating field and anyone can 710 00:26:12,470 --> 00:26:11,120 join and anyone can get kicked out but 711 00:26:14,549 --> 00:26:12,480 the minute they get kicked out they can 712 00:26:17,269 --> 00:26:14,559 be invited right back in as we've seen 713 00:26:18,870 --> 00:26:17,279 many times before yeah but who does the 714 00:26:21,029 --> 00:26:18,880 kicking out like who has the authority 715 00:26:23,029 --> 00:26:21,039 right because ultimately you know i 716 00:26:24,870 --> 00:26:23,039 would probably i could probably if i 717 00:26:26,789 --> 00:26:24,880 really had to i could probably muster a 718 00:26:28,470 --> 00:26:26,799 lot of people in the ufo community who 719 00:26:30,230 --> 00:26:28,480 would argue that 720 00:26:31,269 --> 00:26:30,240 sorry corey but you know i had a lot of 721 00:26:32,310 --> 00:26:31,279 people in the ufo community who could 722 00:26:33,990 --> 00:26:32,320 people who basically come out and say 723 00:26:35,510 --> 00:26:34,000 yeah corey good's a fraud and i could 724 00:26:37,190 --> 00:26:35,520 muster probably a pretty sizable force 725 00:26:39,990 --> 00:26:37,200 of individuals in the uh community who 726 00:26:41,750 --> 00:26:40,000 would say that but at the end of the day 727 00:26:43,750 --> 00:26:41,760 so can he and he can come out and say 728 00:26:44,710 --> 00:26:43,760 you know i'm not a fraud and you know 729 00:26:46,789 --> 00:26:44,720 here's 730 00:26:49,110 --> 00:26:46,799 my story and i have a website and it's 731 00:26:50,789 --> 00:26:49,120 great and we'd just be butting heads you 732 00:26:52,070 --> 00:26:50,799 know like there would be no 733 00:26:54,149 --> 00:26:52,080 there's no one to do the ex 734 00:26:55,430 --> 00:26:54,159 communicating right there's no pope so i 735 00:26:56,630 --> 00:26:55,440 don't know that's one thing i like about 736 00:26:58,230 --> 00:26:56,640 the ufo community though you know like 737 00:26:59,990 --> 00:26:58,240 they're because there is no order it's 738 00:27:01,830 --> 00:27:00,000 just this total anarchy yeah right it's 739 00:27:03,190 --> 00:27:01,840 just this this complete 740 00:27:04,870 --> 00:27:03,200 system of chaos but there's something to 741 00:27:06,310 --> 00:27:04,880 be said for that i think i think maybe 742 00:27:07,830 --> 00:27:06,320 the phenomenon likes that i think maybe 743 00:27:09,430 --> 00:27:07,840 you know whatever is responsible for 744 00:27:10,149 --> 00:27:09,440 ufos i think it kind of digs the fact 745 00:27:14,310 --> 00:27:10,159 that 746 00:27:16,230 --> 00:27:14,320 investigating the phenomenon are in a 747 00:27:18,549 --> 00:27:16,240 chaotic state at all times right like 748 00:27:20,310 --> 00:27:18,559 there's no law and order here 749 00:27:22,950 --> 00:27:20,320 we're not academia we're not the 750 00:27:25,590 --> 00:27:22,960 scientific community we're not colleges 751 00:27:27,190 --> 00:27:25,600 or universities right we are just this 752 00:27:30,710 --> 00:27:27,200 group of 753 00:27:32,470 --> 00:27:30,720 anarchists who run around and just 754 00:27:33,669 --> 00:27:32,480 stir up all the time i think the 755 00:27:35,190 --> 00:27:33,679 ufos love that like i think that 756 00:27:37,029 --> 00:27:35,200 whatever is responsible like i said it's 757 00:27:39,190 --> 00:27:37,039 like excellent right that's how it 758 00:27:41,350 --> 00:27:39,200 should be ah they're eating that up 759 00:27:43,350 --> 00:27:41,360 i mean our our good friend red pill 760 00:27:45,110 --> 00:27:43,360 junkie and i know i'm i'm throwing a lot 761 00:27:46,470 --> 00:27:45,120 of names out there and i don't want 762 00:27:48,789 --> 00:27:46,480 anyone to think this is like a name 763 00:27:51,909 --> 00:27:48,799 dropping episode but this is the work 764 00:27:53,990 --> 00:27:51,919 being done by people today you know we 765 00:27:56,230 --> 00:27:54,000 look at ufos for framing the debate and 766 00:27:59,430 --> 00:27:56,240 red pill junkie talk his essay is called 767 00:28:01,029 --> 00:27:59,440 anarchy in the ufo whatever's in charge 768 00:28:03,029 --> 00:28:01,039 of this phenomenon and i'm not saying 769 00:28:05,669 --> 00:28:03,039 it's one thing one source anything like 770 00:28:08,310 --> 00:28:05,679 that i think they love this that like 771 00:28:10,310 --> 00:28:08,320 we're arguing we're bickering uh you 772 00:28:12,630 --> 00:28:10,320 know we got to the stars going on we've 773 00:28:14,789 --> 00:28:12,640 got seti we've got uh 774 00:28:17,110 --> 00:28:14,799 you know we got bob bigelow we got elon 775 00:28:19,990 --> 00:28:17,120 musk doing it's like it's all over 776 00:28:22,470 --> 00:28:20,000 the place and everyone's just trying to 777 00:28:26,070 --> 00:28:22,480 make new discoveries and explore and 778 00:28:28,310 --> 00:28:26,080 that's exciting but it's messy as 779 00:28:30,950 --> 00:28:28,320 and i don't think we're ever gonna have 780 00:28:33,029 --> 00:28:30,960 like one single answer to any of this uh 781 00:28:35,190 --> 00:28:33,039 that would be extremely depressing to be 782 00:28:36,870 --> 00:28:35,200 honest yeah i mean whatever that answer 783 00:28:38,230 --> 00:28:36,880 is right would really i think would have 784 00:28:40,310 --> 00:28:38,240 to be it would have to be a fundamental 785 00:28:42,310 --> 00:28:40,320 shift in in sort of everything human 786 00:28:44,630 --> 00:28:42,320 right like our culture would be it would 787 00:28:46,230 --> 00:28:44,640 be totally unknown like i came in fathom 788 00:28:48,630 --> 00:28:46,240 it would be we would be living in this 789 00:28:51,269 --> 00:28:48,640 curious society and curious culture that 790 00:28:53,350 --> 00:28:51,279 accepts the reality that you know weird 791 00:28:54,870 --> 00:28:53,360 happens all the time right or you 792 00:28:56,549 --> 00:28:54,880 know there's these other realms that 793 00:28:57,830 --> 00:28:56,559 exist or or aliens are real or whatever 794 00:29:00,149 --> 00:28:57,840 like it would be a totally different 795 00:29:01,990 --> 00:29:00,159 world i think it wouldn't be the second 796 00:29:03,669 --> 00:29:02,000 it sort of became common knowledge if 797 00:29:05,909 --> 00:29:03,679 consensus reality 798 00:29:07,990 --> 00:29:05,919 allowed ufos to be real 799 00:29:10,230 --> 00:29:08,000 it would be pretty wild i think anarchy 800 00:29:11,750 --> 00:29:10,240 it would be anarchy again 801 00:29:14,789 --> 00:29:11,760 yeah it would be a strange form of 802 00:29:16,549 --> 00:29:14,799 society that's for sure yeah well i mean 803 00:29:18,630 --> 00:29:16,559 i did bring up tom delonge dude we 804 00:29:21,909 --> 00:29:18,640 haven't talked since um you know the 805 00:29:23,990 --> 00:29:21,919 2017 wrap-up episode when that all kind 806 00:29:25,909 --> 00:29:24,000 of broke you know the first videos came 807 00:29:27,590 --> 00:29:25,919 out the pentagon story came out i want 808 00:29:29,190 --> 00:29:27,600 to know what you think we won't spend 809 00:29:31,909 --> 00:29:29,200 too much time on this because i don't 810 00:29:33,430 --> 00:29:31,919 know if it necessarily deserves it but 811 00:29:35,590 --> 00:29:33,440 where do you stand right now with all 812 00:29:37,669 --> 00:29:35,600 this i'm looking at tom delong's 813 00:29:40,549 --> 00:29:37,679 investment things that's that thing is 814 00:29:43,029 --> 00:29:40,559 not climbed in the past like few months 815 00:29:45,590 --> 00:29:43,039 and then we've got three videos now 816 00:29:47,430 --> 00:29:45,600 people are really very divisive on all 817 00:29:48,789 --> 00:29:47,440 of it um where do you stand right now 818 00:29:51,590 --> 00:29:48,799 with this whole thing to the stars 819 00:29:54,230 --> 00:29:51,600 academy and whatnot yeah i really i 820 00:29:56,549 --> 00:29:54,240 think in my mind i think in my mind i 821 00:29:59,909 --> 00:29:56,559 really try to separate now especially 822 00:30:00,950 --> 00:29:59,919 now in 2017 when we had that wrap up 823 00:30:02,630 --> 00:30:00,960 you know i was in a different place it 824 00:30:04,310 --> 00:30:02,640 was all new and i wasn't sure of how it 825 00:30:06,149 --> 00:30:04,320 was all working and i wasn't sure of the 826 00:30:07,510 --> 00:30:06,159 structure and it was all kind of i 827 00:30:09,269 --> 00:30:07,520 didn't have any sort of additional 828 00:30:10,950 --> 00:30:09,279 background information yeah 829 00:30:13,590 --> 00:30:10,960 now you know a year later it's been a 830 00:30:15,669 --> 00:30:13,600 year i've been i mean months later 831 00:30:19,350 --> 00:30:15,679 you know i want to separate tom delong 832 00:30:21,190 --> 00:30:19,360 from to the stars i i don't necessarily 833 00:30:22,389 --> 00:30:21,200 have an issue 834 00:30:25,029 --> 00:30:22,399 with 835 00:30:27,750 --> 00:30:25,039 to the stars academy as a concept 836 00:30:29,269 --> 00:30:27,760 i don't neces i i i the funding is 837 00:30:31,190 --> 00:30:29,279 problematic but i don't necessarily have 838 00:30:33,750 --> 00:30:31,200 an issue with the idea of a bunch of 839 00:30:35,909 --> 00:30:33,760 individuals who are really into ufos and 840 00:30:37,990 --> 00:30:35,919 and managed to put something together um 841 00:30:39,669 --> 00:30:38,000 in an attempt to maybe because they have 842 00:30:41,990 --> 00:30:39,679 some higher access 843 00:30:44,710 --> 00:30:42,000 than the rest of us to try and bring 844 00:30:46,549 --> 00:30:44,720 some more ufological information out 845 00:30:47,990 --> 00:30:46,559 okay i don't have a problem with that 846 00:30:49,990 --> 00:30:48,000 assuming they're all telling the truth 847 00:30:51,430 --> 00:30:50,000 and they're all honest and and whatever 848 00:30:53,510 --> 00:30:51,440 which you know we can have a debate 849 00:30:55,190 --> 00:30:53,520 about that and then there's tom delonge 850 00:30:57,190 --> 00:30:55,200 you know what i mean like just because 851 00:30:59,350 --> 00:30:57,200 he's the current ceo 852 00:31:01,350 --> 00:30:59,360 i think and and just because he's kind 853 00:31:02,549 --> 00:31:01,360 of the face of the project doesn't 854 00:31:04,070 --> 00:31:02,559 necessarily mean 855 00:31:07,269 --> 00:31:04,080 that he's much more than the face of the 856 00:31:09,669 --> 00:31:07,279 project and and he's probably 857 00:31:11,830 --> 00:31:09,679 responsible probably responsible for 858 00:31:13,350 --> 00:31:11,840 sort of the media stuff right he's 859 00:31:15,990 --> 00:31:13,360 probably responsible for you know the 860 00:31:18,310 --> 00:31:16,000 marketing aspect um the entertainment 861 00:31:21,350 --> 00:31:18,320 aspect but i don't really see him being 862 00:31:23,350 --> 00:31:21,360 responsible for much else i don't see 863 00:31:25,510 --> 00:31:23,360 him being the guy who 864 00:31:27,909 --> 00:31:25,520 manages to get you know videos released 865 00:31:29,190 --> 00:31:27,919 or whatever that comes from 866 00:31:31,430 --> 00:31:29,200 the other individuals in his 867 00:31:34,149 --> 00:31:31,440 organization because they clearly have 868 00:31:34,870 --> 00:31:34,159 clearance to do this stuff um or or at 869 00:31:37,110 --> 00:31:34,880 least 870 00:31:38,870 --> 00:31:37,120 sorry they have clearance to have 871 00:31:41,990 --> 00:31:38,880 conversations with people who have 872 00:31:44,149 --> 00:31:42,000 clearance and the ability to potentially 873 00:31:46,070 --> 00:31:44,159 you know declassify certain things 874 00:31:47,590 --> 00:31:46,080 um and make that happen right it's they 875 00:31:49,830 --> 00:31:47,600 have social capital right they have or 876 00:31:52,070 --> 00:31:49,840 they have clearance social capital right 877 00:31:53,590 --> 00:31:52,080 they know people within that community 878 00:31:55,750 --> 00:31:53,600 who can 879 00:31:57,269 --> 00:31:55,760 grease those wheels a little bit 880 00:32:00,310 --> 00:31:57,279 versus you know just you and me sending 881 00:32:01,750 --> 00:32:00,320 an fo ia request so i think that's 882 00:32:03,830 --> 00:32:01,760 interesting i think that there's there's 883 00:32:05,190 --> 00:32:03,840 something very compelling there you know 884 00:32:07,110 --> 00:32:05,200 do i still think there's sort of agendas 885 00:32:09,990 --> 00:32:07,120 on top of agendas potentially i don't 886 00:32:11,830 --> 00:32:10,000 know um i i can't speak to sort of 887 00:32:13,430 --> 00:32:11,840 um necessarily you know what the 888 00:32:15,190 --> 00:32:13,440 intelligence community is up to and what 889 00:32:16,870 --> 00:32:15,200 their intentions are their agendas are 890 00:32:18,470 --> 00:32:16,880 it's impossible really to speculate 891 00:32:20,470 --> 00:32:18,480 fundamentally right because ultimately 892 00:32:23,190 --> 00:32:20,480 whatever you think is going on isn't 893 00:32:24,389 --> 00:32:23,200 because they're 18 steps ahead of you um 894 00:32:26,950 --> 00:32:24,399 and it and it doesn't matter how 895 00:32:29,909 --> 00:32:26,960 conspiratorial you are or or what you 896 00:32:32,230 --> 00:32:29,919 think um you're wrong right because 897 00:32:33,669 --> 00:32:32,240 they're not stupid and and 898 00:32:35,590 --> 00:32:33,679 they've already guessed what you've what 899 00:32:36,710 --> 00:32:35,600 you're thinking and they're moving 900 00:32:37,990 --> 00:32:36,720 beyond to the point where they're not 901 00:32:40,789 --> 00:32:38,000 doing anything i don't know like 902 00:32:42,230 --> 00:32:40,799 circular but yeah i i so 903 00:32:43,990 --> 00:32:42,240 i almost like i say i want to separate 904 00:32:45,509 --> 00:32:44,000 tom that's a long i've jeez i've just 905 00:32:47,190 --> 00:32:45,519 been tanging it's the whiskey i really 906 00:32:49,590 --> 00:32:47,200 want to separate tom delong from from 907 00:32:52,470 --> 00:32:49,600 ttsa a little bit um i think he's still 908 00:32:53,909 --> 00:32:52,480 an aspect but i don't really think he's 909 00:32:55,990 --> 00:32:53,919 like i don't think he's a key player i 910 00:32:58,149 --> 00:32:56,000 think he's he's a source of money he's a 911 00:33:01,509 --> 00:32:58,159 source of of maybe a bit of marketing 912 00:33:03,990 --> 00:33:01,519 prowess i think he's a source of uh 913 00:33:06,470 --> 00:33:04,000 knowledge on how to sort of sell stuff 914 00:33:09,190 --> 00:33:06,480 and how to promote stuff which is like 915 00:33:10,950 --> 00:33:09,200 hugely important in the ufo field 916 00:33:12,389 --> 00:33:10,960 so i'm not saying he's not unimportant i 917 00:33:14,389 --> 00:33:12,399 just don't i think he's sort of that 918 00:33:17,509 --> 00:33:14,399 angle i think he's kind of the glitz and 919 00:33:20,310 --> 00:33:17,519 the glitter um he's he's the sizzle uh 920 00:33:21,909 --> 00:33:20,320 not so much the stake in ttsa right i i 921 00:33:24,149 --> 00:33:21,919 think that's a really good point man i 922 00:33:25,909 --> 00:33:24,159 mean i think and i think he knows that i 923 00:33:28,470 --> 00:33:25,919 think he's okay with that role at this 924 00:33:31,269 --> 00:33:28,480 point and i think maybe it was planned 925 00:33:33,350 --> 00:33:31,279 all along that he said look i'll be like 926 00:33:35,509 --> 00:33:33,360 the one to take the hits and 927 00:33:38,389 --> 00:33:35,519 this and that and be like the poster boy 928 00:33:40,470 --> 00:33:38,399 and in return he's getting that insider 929 00:33:41,669 --> 00:33:40,480 information he's always wanted yeah i 930 00:33:44,149 --> 00:33:41,679 mean if he's willing to take the 931 00:33:46,070 --> 00:33:44,159 financial hits that's fine like he's 932 00:33:48,389 --> 00:33:46,080 getting you know and we've seen this 933 00:33:51,269 --> 00:33:48,399 before where people within the field or 934 00:33:53,909 --> 00:33:51,279 whatnot you know will sacrifice certain 935 00:33:56,310 --> 00:33:53,919 things or do certain things to get 936 00:33:57,750 --> 00:33:56,320 information for themselves and 937 00:33:59,269 --> 00:33:57,760 in one way i can't really blame them for 938 00:34:01,110 --> 00:33:59,279 that but one thing that's really 939 00:34:03,190 --> 00:34:01,120 interesting and i wasn't going to bring 940 00:34:04,470 --> 00:34:03,200 this up on the show because i was kind 941 00:34:07,509 --> 00:34:04,480 of i was really bummed when this 942 00:34:09,909 --> 00:34:07,519 happened but so a week ago here in l.a 943 00:34:12,149 --> 00:34:09,919 de long was doing a book signing with aj 944 00:34:14,710 --> 00:34:12,159 hartley and i was like holy like 945 00:34:16,790 --> 00:34:14,720 this is my chance like i live 946 00:34:18,950 --> 00:34:16,800 20 minutes from where he's doing this 947 00:34:20,869 --> 00:34:18,960 i'm gonna reach out and be like 948 00:34:23,829 --> 00:34:20,879 drop some names that i know because i'm 949 00:34:27,030 --> 00:34:23,839 i'm not shameless uh or i am shameless i 950 00:34:28,149 --> 00:34:27,040 don't know and uh and say look i i would 951 00:34:29,990 --> 00:34:28,159 love to just talk to him for a few 952 00:34:31,669 --> 00:34:30,000 minutes about where he stands on the 953 00:34:33,669 --> 00:34:31,679 academy everything that's happened and 954 00:34:35,750 --> 00:34:33,679 what the reception's been like so his 955 00:34:37,829 --> 00:34:35,760 first publicist got back to me and said 956 00:34:39,589 --> 00:34:37,839 tom would be delighted he's like let us 957 00:34:42,710 --> 00:34:39,599 know when you're here and we'll set it 958 00:34:44,790 --> 00:34:42,720 up so i'm like i'm so excited 959 00:34:47,349 --> 00:34:44,800 man i'm like who else has talked to de 960 00:34:49,990 --> 00:34:47,359 long since like the the horrible thing 961 00:34:52,310 --> 00:34:50,000 he did with rogan and whatnot right and 962 00:34:54,230 --> 00:34:52,320 i'm like oh i'm gonna like i'm gonna be 963 00:34:56,470 --> 00:34:54,240 the one to like break the story and get 964 00:34:58,550 --> 00:34:56,480 him on and get his personal reactions 965 00:35:00,870 --> 00:34:58,560 not 20 minutes later i get an email from 966 00:35:03,910 --> 00:35:00,880 another public publicist saying we're so 967 00:35:05,750 --> 00:35:03,920 sorry uh we take back what we said mr 968 00:35:07,430 --> 00:35:05,760 delong will not be making any more 969 00:35:09,510 --> 00:35:07,440 public interviews about to the stars 970 00:35:11,910 --> 00:35:09,520 academy and i found that very 971 00:35:14,310 --> 00:35:11,920 interesting that within 20 minutes they 972 00:35:17,030 --> 00:35:14,320 completely flipped it around and at this 973 00:35:18,870 --> 00:35:17,040 point he's very he hasn't been very 974 00:35:21,270 --> 00:35:18,880 vocal you know maybe some tweets here 975 00:35:23,910 --> 00:35:21,280 and there about the academy but he's not 976 00:35:26,310 --> 00:35:23,920 posting hoaxed photos it's interesting i 977 00:35:28,950 --> 00:35:26,320 i really think that this is the role he 978 00:35:31,430 --> 00:35:28,960 was set up to have with this is let me 979 00:35:33,670 --> 00:35:31,440 let me like drop the bomb at first get 980 00:35:35,349 --> 00:35:33,680 it out there do these book signings and 981 00:35:37,270 --> 00:35:35,359 then take over the entertainment side of 982 00:35:38,870 --> 00:35:37,280 it let the ones with the insider 983 00:35:41,510 --> 00:35:38,880 knowledge and the like you said the 984 00:35:42,950 --> 00:35:41,520 social capital do it you know get that 985 00:35:46,150 --> 00:35:42,960 information out there i think you're 986 00:35:48,310 --> 00:35:46,160 right i i or you know i mean the joe 987 00:35:50,470 --> 00:35:48,320 rogan interview was 988 00:35:53,270 --> 00:35:50,480 incredibly embarrassing yeah 989 00:35:56,470 --> 00:35:53,280 so i can also see potentially the 990 00:35:58,870 --> 00:35:56,480 individuals in ttsa the stake and not 991 00:36:00,710 --> 00:35:58,880 the sizzle i can see the steak kind of 992 00:36:02,230 --> 00:36:00,720 looking at the sizzle and and kind of 993 00:36:03,670 --> 00:36:02,240 being like listen man 994 00:36:05,510 --> 00:36:03,680 we got to kind of put you on a leash 995 00:36:06,870 --> 00:36:05,520 here a little bit yeah right otherwise 996 00:36:09,270 --> 00:36:06,880 we're going to cut you out of this right 997 00:36:10,390 --> 00:36:09,280 otherwise otherwise you know you 998 00:36:12,310 --> 00:36:10,400 otherwise we're just not going to tell 999 00:36:13,349 --> 00:36:12,320 you things anymore i'm not saying that 1000 00:36:15,270 --> 00:36:13,359 they did that 1001 00:36:17,829 --> 00:36:15,280 i have no evidence to support this i'm 1002 00:36:20,470 --> 00:36:17,839 just suggesting that you know after that 1003 00:36:22,950 --> 00:36:20,480 interview if i was if i was let's say an 1004 00:36:25,589 --> 00:36:22,960 individual within the ufo community who 1005 00:36:27,670 --> 00:36:25,599 who had sort of clearance and and you 1006 00:36:30,470 --> 00:36:27,680 know i'm relatively well known and and 1007 00:36:32,390 --> 00:36:30,480 i'm also an academic you know i'm not 1008 00:36:34,630 --> 00:36:32,400 just some guy off the street you know 1009 00:36:36,069 --> 00:36:34,640 like i worked for the cia or i have cia 1010 00:36:37,750 --> 00:36:36,079 clearance and blah blah after that 1011 00:36:39,510 --> 00:36:37,760 interview you know we're trying to do 1012 00:36:41,589 --> 00:36:39,520 something great here at ttsa you know 1013 00:36:43,589 --> 00:36:41,599 we're trying to promote and we're trying 1014 00:36:45,829 --> 00:36:43,599 to get this information out there 1015 00:36:48,150 --> 00:36:45,839 and then you go on joe rogan and and 1016 00:36:49,270 --> 00:36:48,160 that happens i can see sort of as one of 1017 00:36:51,430 --> 00:36:49,280 those individuals being like you know 1018 00:36:53,990 --> 00:36:51,440 what man i'm thinking about walking away 1019 00:36:55,510 --> 00:36:54,000 right now because whatever that was 1020 00:36:57,109 --> 00:36:55,520 shouldn't have happened you know like 1021 00:36:59,430 --> 00:36:57,119 you're you're supposed to be my 1022 00:37:02,550 --> 00:36:59,440 marketing guru and you somehow dropped 1023 00:37:03,990 --> 00:37:02,560 the ball on that so i can see that also 1024 00:37:05,349 --> 00:37:04,000 being the case i can see just because 1025 00:37:06,950 --> 00:37:05,359 that's how i would do it right like you 1026 00:37:08,630 --> 00:37:06,960 know i work in a school i used to be a 1027 00:37:09,990 --> 00:37:08,640 school administrator 1028 00:37:12,550 --> 00:37:10,000 if one of my teachers did something 1029 00:37:15,190 --> 00:37:12,560 stupid like that i could be like listen 1030 00:37:18,310 --> 00:37:15,200 things aren't working out you know so i 1031 00:37:19,589 --> 00:37:18,320 can i can kind of fathom that reaction 1032 00:37:20,470 --> 00:37:19,599 as well i mean these are still people 1033 00:37:22,150 --> 00:37:20,480 these are still individuals there's 1034 00:37:23,270 --> 00:37:22,160 still people who are trying to not sell 1035 00:37:25,109 --> 00:37:23,280 something but these individuals who are 1036 00:37:27,349 --> 00:37:25,119 trying to promote an idea and if you 1037 00:37:28,630 --> 00:37:27,359 have someone standing in the way not by 1038 00:37:30,790 --> 00:37:28,640 their own fault you know he was probably 1039 00:37:33,109 --> 00:37:30,800 just nervous he was probably unsure what 1040 00:37:34,870 --> 00:37:33,119 to do through no fault of his own maybe 1041 00:37:36,790 --> 00:37:34,880 still really screwed up 1042 00:37:38,630 --> 00:37:36,800 like that interview was bad man it was 1043 00:37:42,069 --> 00:37:38,640 horrible dude i got through like the 1044 00:37:45,750 --> 00:37:42,079 first 20 minutes maybe and i'm like what 1045 00:37:49,270 --> 00:37:45,760 either de long is like on coke right now 1046 00:37:51,510 --> 00:37:49,280 or some something's going on maybe 1047 00:37:54,069 --> 00:37:51,520 yeah i i do too i mean again like this 1048 00:37:56,470 --> 00:37:54,079 was his first major interview since he 1049 00:37:58,870 --> 00:37:56,480 announced the academy and who knows who 1050 00:38:01,270 --> 00:37:58,880 knows my i guess my question would be 1051 00:38:04,310 --> 00:38:01,280 like let's say they do have him on a 1052 00:38:07,190 --> 00:38:04,320 leash you know who in their right mind 1053 00:38:08,870 --> 00:38:07,200 at the top of whatever is going on here 1054 00:38:11,670 --> 00:38:08,880 you know the trickle-down effect of all 1055 00:38:14,150 --> 00:38:11,680 the people he got involved with it who 1056 00:38:16,069 --> 00:38:14,160 said this is the guy that we're gonna 1057 00:38:17,990 --> 00:38:16,079 pick to do our marketing and to get the 1058 00:38:20,470 --> 00:38:18,000 information out there is it merely 1059 00:38:22,150 --> 00:38:20,480 because he was interested in ufos before 1060 00:38:23,910 --> 00:38:22,160 this or 1061 00:38:25,430 --> 00:38:23,920 why didn't they get george 1062 00:38:28,710 --> 00:38:25,440 clooney or something 1063 00:38:30,550 --> 00:38:28,720 so any face or figure that wasn't 1064 00:38:32,310 --> 00:38:30,560 talking about jacking off in every song 1065 00:38:33,910 --> 00:38:32,320 he's ever written you know what i mean i 1066 00:38:36,390 --> 00:38:33,920 would say that that the vast majority of 1067 00:38:38,630 --> 00:38:36,400 the individuals in ttsa sort of know 1068 00:38:41,030 --> 00:38:38,640 each other well yeah i would say that 1069 00:38:43,349 --> 00:38:41,040 they're all probably regular and 1070 00:38:45,670 --> 00:38:43,359 regularly sort of you know engaged with 1071 00:38:47,750 --> 00:38:45,680 each other sort of within ufo discourse 1072 00:38:51,109 --> 00:38:47,760 right i mean you know these these the 1073 00:38:52,790 --> 00:38:51,119 names behind ttsa the these individuals 1074 00:38:55,349 --> 00:38:52,800 clearly are are interested in the 1075 00:38:57,750 --> 00:38:55,359 phenomenon and clearly their interests 1076 00:38:59,829 --> 00:38:57,760 sort of lay outside of really any 1077 00:39:00,950 --> 00:38:59,839 financial gain their interests lay 1078 00:39:03,990 --> 00:39:00,960 outside 1079 00:39:05,750 --> 00:39:04,000 of any sort of gain for glory or 1080 00:39:07,270 --> 00:39:05,760 anything like that they're just they're 1081 00:39:09,349 --> 00:39:07,280 really interested in ufos and and the 1082 00:39:11,910 --> 00:39:09,359 phenomenon itself and trying to figure 1083 00:39:15,270 --> 00:39:11,920 it out i think that you probably had a 1084 00:39:16,870 --> 00:39:15,280 situation where de long started after 1085 00:39:18,950 --> 00:39:16,880 you know as he says he read a lot of 1086 00:39:20,790 --> 00:39:18,960 books after he read all those books he 1087 00:39:23,030 --> 00:39:20,800 probably started to reach out and only 1088 00:39:26,069 --> 00:39:23,040 that you know tom delonge has probably 1089 00:39:26,950 --> 00:39:26,079 significant access to individuals who 1090 00:39:28,550 --> 00:39:26,960 can 1091 00:39:30,069 --> 00:39:28,560 contact other individuals right like you 1092 00:39:32,069 --> 00:39:30,079 know if you're a publicist or whatever 1093 00:39:34,390 --> 00:39:32,079 your job is to be able to make 1094 00:39:36,710 --> 00:39:34,400 meetings happen um so i can imagine tom 1095 00:39:39,190 --> 00:39:36,720 delong calling up i don't know 1096 00:39:40,790 --> 00:39:39,200 the the you know hell put off secretary 1097 00:39:43,670 --> 00:39:40,800 yeah and being like hey 1098 00:39:45,030 --> 00:39:43,680 you know tom delong of blink182 1099 00:39:46,870 --> 00:39:45,040 wants to talk to you and how put off's 1100 00:39:49,030 --> 00:39:46,880 like who and then they're like i know 1101 00:39:50,310 --> 00:39:49,040 it's a band and you know like google 1102 00:39:52,630 --> 00:39:50,320 searched it and he's like oh you know 1103 00:39:53,510 --> 00:39:52,640 yeah okay you know all the small things 1104 00:39:55,510 --> 00:39:53,520 got it 1105 00:39:57,750 --> 00:39:55,520 no yeah he's like wow you know their 1106 00:39:59,030 --> 00:39:57,760 youtube video has like 80 million hits 1107 00:40:00,950 --> 00:39:59,040 okay well i i you know i'll take a 1108 00:40:02,790 --> 00:40:00,960 meeting right um and i mean and i'm sure 1109 00:40:04,470 --> 00:40:02,800 tom you know like i said like i said 1110 00:40:06,630 --> 00:40:04,480 before i think in an article i wrote you 1111 00:40:08,790 --> 00:40:06,640 know i i appreciate tom delong as no 1112 00:40:11,030 --> 00:40:08,800 sort of hey seed in in sort of 1113 00:40:13,670 --> 00:40:11,040 ufological knowledge right like he like 1114 00:40:15,190 --> 00:40:13,680 he has read a lot oh yes 1115 00:40:16,790 --> 00:40:15,200 you know whether whether you know what 1116 00:40:19,270 --> 00:40:16,800 he takes in from his reading i don't 1117 00:40:22,150 --> 00:40:19,280 know whether he applies what he's read 1118 00:40:23,589 --> 00:40:22,160 and whether he synthesizes what he read 1119 00:40:25,990 --> 00:40:23,599 sort of in an intelligible way i don't 1120 00:40:28,470 --> 00:40:26,000 know i don't know the man but he knows a 1121 00:40:31,670 --> 00:40:28,480 lot of things about ufos so i can see 1122 00:40:33,829 --> 00:40:31,680 kind of them and and you know just 1123 00:40:35,349 --> 00:40:33,839 how people talk and you know email 1124 00:40:37,510 --> 00:40:35,359 chains happen and just being like hey 1125 00:40:38,790 --> 00:40:37,520 you know this guy and he wants to do 1126 00:40:40,230 --> 00:40:38,800 this and he has this idea maybe we 1127 00:40:41,030 --> 00:40:40,240 should work with him and you know it 1128 00:40:42,710 --> 00:40:41,040 probably just kind of happened 1129 00:40:43,750 --> 00:40:42,720 organically because i i can sort of see 1130 00:40:45,030 --> 00:40:43,760 like again that's how generally how 1131 00:40:46,470 --> 00:40:45,040 things work i don't think there was like 1132 00:40:48,069 --> 00:40:46,480 some guy at the top be like we should 1133 00:40:49,990 --> 00:40:48,079 choose tom de long 1134 00:40:52,230 --> 00:40:50,000 right right yeah and i know some people 1135 00:40:54,230 --> 00:40:52,240 think that that this is like the new 1136 00:40:56,950 --> 00:40:54,240 version of the aviary where this was all 1137 00:40:59,190 --> 00:40:56,960 planned and they found a fall guy i 1138 00:41:00,950 --> 00:40:59,200 don't necessarily buy into that either 1139 00:41:02,870 --> 00:41:00,960 you know the more the more you discuss 1140 00:41:05,589 --> 00:41:02,880 it the more i'm like yeah like tom had 1141 00:41:07,270 --> 00:41:05,599 this idea they saw his numbers you know 1142 00:41:08,870 --> 00:41:07,280 how much his net worth is and they're 1143 00:41:11,190 --> 00:41:08,880 like oh we could make some money 1144 00:41:13,430 --> 00:41:11,200 off of this and get some really cool 1145 00:41:14,470 --> 00:41:13,440 stuff going on like let's do this yeah 1146 00:41:15,990 --> 00:41:14,480 and i would even i would even sort of 1147 00:41:17,109 --> 00:41:16,000 say like listen i would hesitate and say 1148 00:41:18,390 --> 00:41:17,119 like we can get some money off this 1149 00:41:19,750 --> 00:41:18,400 because i gotta be honest they probably 1150 00:41:21,510 --> 00:41:19,760 could care less like they're like you 1151 00:41:23,430 --> 00:41:21,520 really look at the credentials of those 1152 00:41:24,630 --> 00:41:23,440 individuals like they all run like 1153 00:41:26,390 --> 00:41:24,640 they're all academics right like they 1154 00:41:29,190 --> 00:41:26,400 all have university careers like they're 1155 00:41:31,270 --> 00:41:29,200 not millionaires at least most of them 1156 00:41:32,550 --> 00:41:31,280 but you know like they're not hurting 1157 00:41:34,069 --> 00:41:32,560 for money like they're doing what 1158 00:41:36,150 --> 00:41:34,079 they're doing because they're interested 1159 00:41:37,910 --> 00:41:36,160 i think i think what delong offers apart 1160 00:41:39,829 --> 00:41:37,920 from sort of the media connection and 1161 00:41:41,990 --> 00:41:39,839 and knowing people within media right 1162 00:41:43,910 --> 00:41:42,000 like i mean ultimately if tom delong 1163 00:41:46,309 --> 00:41:43,920 makes a ufo documentary it's going on 1164 00:41:48,230 --> 00:41:46,319 netflix okay like that's a phone call 1165 00:41:49,750 --> 00:41:48,240 that's not we have to kind of you know 1166 00:41:50,870 --> 00:41:49,760 he doesn't have to go like the core bell 1167 00:41:52,950 --> 00:41:50,880 route which is like you have to send it 1168 00:41:54,069 --> 00:41:52,960 to them and they have to approve it and 1169 00:41:56,230 --> 00:41:54,079 you know it has to go through their 1170 00:41:57,829 --> 00:41:56,240 committee and you know well it takes 1171 00:41:59,829 --> 00:41:57,839 months and months right to win that car 1172 00:42:01,670 --> 00:41:59,839 bell hustle right exactly whereas in you 1173 00:42:04,470 --> 00:42:01,680 know tom delonge makes a phone call it's 1174 00:42:05,589 --> 00:42:04,480 on netflix the next day exactly um so i 1175 00:42:07,750 --> 00:42:05,599 don't think it's a money thing i think 1176 00:42:09,829 --> 00:42:07,760 it's it's just they have a fundamental 1177 00:42:11,270 --> 00:42:09,839 interest so i wouldn't say 1178 00:42:13,109 --> 00:42:11,280 sort of because again really like how 1179 00:42:15,190 --> 00:42:13,119 much money have they really raised i 1180 00:42:17,030 --> 00:42:15,200 think what delong can offer is his 1181 00:42:18,950 --> 00:42:17,040 connections within media yeah i think 1182 00:42:20,870 --> 00:42:18,960 that's the big thing that he can he can 1183 00:42:22,950 --> 00:42:20,880 fund a lot of this too right i mean he 1184 00:42:25,030 --> 00:42:22,960 can fund all of this on his own and 1185 00:42:26,630 --> 00:42:25,040 that's useful as well yeah there's a 1186 00:42:28,309 --> 00:42:26,640 there's a lot of money things going on 1187 00:42:30,630 --> 00:42:28,319 behind the scenes with this that i i 1188 00:42:31,910 --> 00:42:30,640 don't think i've really really looked 1189 00:42:34,870 --> 00:42:31,920 into but 1190 00:42:37,270 --> 00:42:34,880 the money is there to delonge's got a 1191 00:42:39,510 --> 00:42:37,280 cushion for all of this oh sure there's 1192 00:42:41,349 --> 00:42:39,520 a contingency plan for sure you know we 1193 00:42:43,829 --> 00:42:41,359 might see this thing completely fizzle 1194 00:42:46,470 --> 00:42:43,839 and everyone falls out and it's just old 1195 00:42:48,069 --> 00:42:46,480 news um or they might do some really 1196 00:42:49,589 --> 00:42:48,079 cool and in that time you know 1197 00:42:51,430 --> 00:42:49,599 right i'm gonna watch the documentary 1198 00:42:53,750 --> 00:42:51,440 i'm gonna buy the books and i'm gonna 1199 00:42:55,589 --> 00:42:53,760 take the ride because at this point like 1200 00:42:57,109 --> 00:42:55,599 you know what the hell do we have to 1201 00:42:59,510 --> 00:42:57,119 lose we're getting some pretty 1202 00:43:01,910 --> 00:42:59,520 interesting videos not as exciting as we 1203 00:43:04,390 --> 00:43:01,920 hoped but interesting nonetheless and 1204 00:43:06,390 --> 00:43:04,400 we're talking about it which is cool in 1205 00:43:07,829 --> 00:43:06,400 my opinion so you know i'm going to keep 1206 00:43:09,990 --> 00:43:07,839 i'm going to keep watching listening 1207 00:43:11,190 --> 00:43:10,000 reading whatever it is yeah and i think 1208 00:43:12,790 --> 00:43:11,200 there's no harm in that i think i think 1209 00:43:14,069 --> 00:43:12,800 where we have to be cautious is i mean i 1210 00:43:15,750 --> 00:43:14,079 heard be honest we've been talking about 1211 00:43:17,910 --> 00:43:15,760 this for last i don't know 15 20 minutes 1212 00:43:19,349 --> 00:43:17,920 i said we wouldn't i know and and we 1213 00:43:21,430 --> 00:43:19,359 have to be cautious because again we've 1214 00:43:23,510 --> 00:43:21,440 allocated you know 20 minutes of our 1215 00:43:25,589 --> 00:43:23,520 time talking about this and what haven't 1216 00:43:27,349 --> 00:43:25,599 we talked about right there's a lot of 1217 00:43:29,589 --> 00:43:27,359 other ufological work out there being 1218 00:43:30,950 --> 00:43:29,599 done that isn't getting attention 1219 00:43:33,589 --> 00:43:30,960 because of 1220 00:43:35,030 --> 00:43:33,599 to the stars and and you have to kind of 1221 00:43:36,470 --> 00:43:35,040 be critical like i'm not being critical 1222 00:43:38,790 --> 00:43:36,480 in a negative way but i'm being critical 1223 00:43:40,710 --> 00:43:38,800 because you know i'm critical we have to 1224 00:43:43,349 --> 00:43:40,720 be cautious of whose narrative 1225 00:43:45,670 --> 00:43:43,359 we tell do i think ttsa is some grand 1226 00:43:47,030 --> 00:43:45,680 conspiracy run by the cia no don't be 1227 00:43:49,750 --> 00:43:47,040 stupid but 1228 00:43:51,990 --> 00:43:49,760 do i think that there's a bit of 1229 00:43:54,230 --> 00:43:52,000 perception management at times 1230 00:43:56,150 --> 00:43:54,240 potentially i mean you know if if the 1231 00:43:58,069 --> 00:43:56,160 intelligence community has its hands in 1232 00:43:59,829 --> 00:43:58,079 something perception is very much an 1233 00:44:01,430 --> 00:43:59,839 important aspect right optics right 1234 00:44:03,030 --> 00:44:01,440 controlling the optics but then you know 1235 00:44:04,950 --> 00:44:03,040 tom dylan goes on joe rogan there goes 1236 00:44:09,109 --> 00:44:04,960 the optic 1237 00:44:11,750 --> 00:44:09,119 gonna consider this part one of our 1238 00:44:13,990 --> 00:44:11,760 conversation the laundry list as it were 1239 00:44:16,630 --> 00:44:14,000 so hang tight everyone and join us next 1240 00:44:18,870 --> 00:44:16,640 week for part two when we tackle a very 1241 00:44:21,349 --> 00:44:18,880 human approach to a possible alien 1242 00:44:23,829 --> 00:44:21,359 phenomenon before we go though i want to 1243 00:44:26,790 --> 00:44:23,839 leave you with a nightcap song from 1244 00:44:28,470 --> 00:44:26,800 friends of the show rogue diplomats be 1245 00:44:31,030 --> 00:44:28,480 sure to check out their new album 1246 00:44:34,390 --> 00:44:31,040 whiskey picnic now available at their 1247 00:44:36,950 --> 00:44:34,400 website roguediplomats.com 1248 00:44:40,550 --> 00:44:36,960 here is their whiskey and al fueled 1249 00:44:42,870 --> 00:44:40,560 anthem old brown ale remember keep your 1250 00:44:45,109 --> 00:44:42,880 feet on the ground but never stop 1251 00:45:06,950 --> 00:44:45,119 searching somewhere in the whiskey